Check out this blog from Susan Blackmore when you get a chance. It is very interesting.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200703150004
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14 comments:
I'm not sure interesting is the word I would use for it.
What do you think?
Atheist or Antitheist?
Another example of lumping Spirituality with religion.
I have often said that I live by my faith and yet I agree with some of what this man has to say. My faith has little or nothing to do with religion. I mean, I have passed through many religious ideas and read countless books on Spiritual ones, written by a myriad of authors; some considered respectable, others wackos. It is through my own questioning, testing and observation that I have developed my OWN faith. I live by what I have discovered...and uncovered...much of which I would never have found, had I committed to the beliefs of ANY one person. My core belief, after all my exploration? There are only two choices...LOVE or fear...but that's another blog. :)
To Bill: You say 'interesting' is not the word, but you don't say what word you would use?
To Bettina: I re-read the entire article and I can't find the word 'Spirituality' anywhere in it.
Exactly my point, Orland. :)
So then, how is it 'lumping spirituality and religion together'?
It was the very first paragraph that triggered my reaction, Orland.
"Why do so many people say they have faith – or claim to be a ‘person of faith’, belong to a ‘faith community’, or send their children to a ‘faith school’? On the face of it having faith hardly seems something to be proud of. If it means believing in something without proof or evidence, why would anyone want to do that? Isn’t it better to try to decide what you believe in by asking questions, looking for evidence, or weighing up probabilities?"
If you look at my first response, what I was trying to say was that I consider myself a person of faith and yet I developed my faith by "asking questions, looking for evidence and weighing up probabilities"...not by buying into religious concepts because everyone in my community did. I mean, I certainly did that, as a child, but my beliefs are based on observation and personal research. I have studied much...and thought much. I have come to my own independent conclusions that I don't need anyone else to believe.
My faith is deep and strong...but it is NOT blind...and it is always...an open box.
This article would lump me (and people like me) in with blind followers of religious dogma and that is far from the truth.
So then, are you saying that 'faith' and 'spirituality' are the same thing? In your comment it sounds more like the word 'faith' you are using refers to your personal religion or your personal religious beliefs, does it not?
Incidentally I agree with you that the article is casting all people of faith as blindly believing, however, I try to sort out the words people use as to what they really mean - faith for example as I've said before can mean religion (religious beliefs) or trust or loyalty in a specific church or religion - subtly different.
OOPS! Great big "OOPS" that requires an apology on my part. I think I was influenced by the, very large words at the top of the page "New StatesMAN". Upon paying closer attention to the contributor, I realize it was a woman. So sorry. I said "man" in my first response. Bad me. :)
Now...Orland...
The word "faith," to me, is interchangeable with "trust". I have learned to trust what I believe, so much, that I can, occasionally, take great leaps without seeing the other side. "Leap and the net will appear". I had to do some scary "leaping" to build this Trusting relationship with the Universe (God, the all that is, divine energy, the Force...whatever you want to call it), but it has always been beneficial. It no longer seems miraculous, to me, only the natural way of things. JMHO
Thanks, well that clears things up a bit (at least as far as your definition of faith is concerned) but many people use these words and do not denote what they are really talking about - this only causes more confusion. I'm only trying to clear up the confusion in the communication. By the way you should google Susan Blackmore and read about her I think you'd find her an interesting perhaps appealing character.
Good job, Orland! It has certainly been a lively discussion!
For further clarity, when I speak of Spirituality I am talking about my connection to Spirit. Spirit to me is the "energy" that connects us all. Recognition of our interconnectedness has been what my "Spiritual" path has brought me to...so far, if that makes sense. :)
Orland,
I didn't use the word(s) that were popping into my head because they were pretty negative. I do remember B.S. being a word that came to mind alot.
I guess I'm not seeing the point of articles like these. What good does it do? It seems to me that first, someone wants to declare what they think I believe, and then they go on to tell me that I must be stupid, or fooled, or tricked, or blind, or ignorant or some other insulting, demeaning thing, to believe it.
What's the point? What service does an article like this provide? What value does it have? To me it's not doing anything positive. It's merely inferring that most people are wrong about what they believe and that it's because they are not as intellectually superior as the author.
Bill - the value of the article is that it offers a possible explanation for a phenomenon which many of us see as at best 'not a very useful way to arrive at your beliefs and at worst 'a form of madness'. Don't take the article to personally. It is speaking more about people who do not examine why they believe what they claim faith in. I can see that for you as also with Bettina that is simply not the case.
Actually, I got the article and agreed with a lot of it. It was only the first paragraph that I really questioned. It would seem to me that if you really wanted to reach people who are too easily led, you might want to be careful about leading them away from your point by insulting them in the first paragraph. I can also see that it was not the writer's intention to insult, but some people, especially those with easy triggers, might be blinded by their anger with the first few lines and miss the REAL point of the message. Of course I believe and and support free speech, but diplomacy is very important, if you really want people to hear...and understand you. Just another humble opinion. :)
Orland,
I can understand your suggestion that perhaps the author was not speaking to "people like me or Bettina" and was speaking more in general terms. I have heard people many times generalize about a group of people and then "exclude present company" or friends that they knew. My experience with that method of communication is that it still usually manages to lump an entire group of people together, usually unfairly and make statements about them that very likely are not true to any degree on an individual basis. In many circles this would be considered a form of prejudice.
The group of people that could fall into this category that the author is speaking about is huge with many different views and certainly many different experiences that have contributed to their total faith experience.
If this author has something to say about what she believes and why she believes it or how she came to believe it, I just think that I would find that much more "interesting" and much less insulting then to have her first infer what I believe and then proceed to explain to me why I have been tricked or fooled or led blindly into believing that way.
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